I don't know what your point was. It started out as a turn-based vs. Real-time combat then ended in what makes for good PvP. Everything you stated that makes for good PvP is true and for the best strategic PvP you need a turn-based system. That's not to say what is more fun or what certain people enjoy. Some people like action packed quick reflex PvP and there's always strategy involved in that as well.

Of course the depth of both real-time and turn-based is going to depend on the game and what "truths" the combatants have to abide by. But in general, given the same programed rules, a real-time game allows nowhere near the depth of strategy that a turn-based game allows for a few reasons.

1) The longer you give most humans time to think about something the better their decisions become.

2) Variables. While as you say luck should always be a part of it, luck is a variable. For true strategic PvP you want as few variables as possible. Same connection speed, same character skill base, same equipment, same time to think about moves, yada yada yada. A pinch of luck adds a little spice to an otherwise black and white world but not too much spice to ruin the flavor. In real-time games lag can affect the outcome (variable). In real-time games reflexes can affect the outcome (variable). Some people are analytical and some people are improvisers. Who is to say which train of thought is "more intelligent" or "better"? Real-time games lean more towards improvisers, analytical thinkers need to have the same situation happen again to have the best possible reaction already imprinted (variable). In real-time games what you ate that day can affect the outcome (variable). In real-time games how long it's been since you got laid can affect the outcome (variable). Think of it this way, for every ice-cube you put in the cup that's one less shot of alcohol. Are we here to drink or are we here to flick ice-cubes with our tongues?

Here's the problem Hed, nobody will ever make the perfect PvP RPG. Nobody wants to. It's hard for me to understand why because I've always been competitive when it came to RPG's. When I played pen & paper AD&D we constantly would match wits with each other. If the DM just mindlessly lined up the lame ass NPC's for us to slaughter it wasn't any fun. We wanted our DM to try and kill us with the creatures so in effect we were matching wits with him. Hell it took me 7 characters to get past the 4th level for the first time. When I was 12 years old that would be what we did at lunch time. We'd go out in the yard with the DM present and we'd have PvP matches. You'd be on one end of the yard and the other guy would be on the other. The time you got to anticipate what his move would be and come up with a counter was the time it took the DM to walk from one guy to the other. The DM would give you about a minute or so to react to the other players move once he told you what it was. The best thing was if you lost and your character was dead, you could grad the stickball bat and beat the shit out of your opponent ;>. After school or during class was when we'd do the campaigning but lunch time was for PvP dammit!

Yea I like to RP but I don't want to frolic hand in hand through the tullies with my fellow gamer. I like confrontation and I want confrontation with my RP. And it wouldn't be good RP if I couldn't smite the bastard who skinned my dog and used it for a winter coat. And if I'm gonna smite the bastard I'd like it to be a little more fun then F6 F6 F6 F6 F3 F6 F6 F6 F6 "wheeeeeeeeeeeeee look at you now, you dead! You stupid fuck, you dead!"